WESTMORELAND FAMILIES
DNA PROJECT

Includes Surname Variants- Westmorland, Westmarland, Westmerland etc

John Marsh, Project Administrator, ajmarsh@arrrg.org
Will Westmoreland, Project Administrator, wmwestmoreland@windstream.net
TEMPORARY WEB SITE:

(http://www.kin.marshdna.com/WestmorelandDNA.htm  TEMPORARY WEB SITE ADDRESS)

CONTENTS:

1) Westmoreland DNA Project Description:
2) Y-DNA Test Results:

1) Westmoreland DNA Project Description:   
Includes variant spellings of Westmoreland, Westmorland, Westmerland  (Project started 20 Feb 2015)
The goal of this project is to use Y-DNA testing to identify which Westmoreland (and variant spelling) families in different parts of the World are related
on the direct male line, and trace their origins. The origins of many families of these surnames are obscure, and it is hoped this Y-DNA project will assist
to break down the brick walls and resolve mysteries about the origins.

(Notes updated April 2015.)


JOINT PROJECT ADMINISTRATORS:

1) Will Westmoreland wmwestmoreland@windstream.net   PO Box 983 Bolivar MO65613 USA   (Focusing on Westmorelands in USA)

2) John Marsh ajmarsh@arrrg.org   26 Highcrest heights, Westmorland, Christchurch 8025, NEW ZEALAND  (Focusing on Westmorelands outside of USA- 12+ years experience running a Y-DNA Surname Project)

Will and John met through Y-DNA testing when they discovered from their DNA they share a direct male line ancestor about 800 years ago, and the hunt is now on to see if that specific ancestor can be named…. a tough task, but hypothetically possible with current DNA testing technology!  Will and John have also established from DNA an outline of their direct male line ancestors migrations over the past 3,000 years. 

The Administrators are here to help:  Both Administrators would welcome any queries about this DNA Project. 
 

WESTMORELAND DNA WEB SITE:
1) Project Web site for families involved in the DNA Project:  At this stage just a temporary web site at...
http://www.kin.marshdna.com/WestmorelandDNA.htm

2) FTDNA Test Company Westmoreland Web Page, including DNA Results: 
https://www.familytreedna.com/project-join-request.aspx?group=Westmoreland&projecttype=S 

 

WHAT CAN BE LEARNED FROM GENEALOGICAL Y-DNA TESTING?:

Y-DNA is passed from fathers to sons mostly unchanged. Females don’t have Y-DNA, but can find out about their direct male line ancestors by Y-DNA testing their father, brother, uncle, or male cousin.  If 2 males have similar Y-DNA, they are related on the direct male line. Generally, the more similar their Y-DNA, the more closely related. But by looking for specific mutations only found in particular families, or branches of families, we can sometimes identify the name of an early direct male line ancestor who may have lived hundreds of years ago, perhaps even 1,000 years ago. The more males of surnames Westmoreland, Westmorland, Westmerland who Y-DNA test in this project, the more successful it will be, as it will enable us to identify mutations which distinguish different families, and branches.  Additionally, Y-DNA testing can often tell us something about what our direct male line ancestors were doing in pre history, in the past few thousand years.  Sometimes it is possible to link our Y-DNA lines to prehistoric migration groups. 

 
DNA testing and conventional paper trail genealogy work together:  Whilst DNA gives specific information very accurately, DNA results still need to be considered in conjunction with conventional paper trail genealogical research to get the most out of the results.

 

DNA Databases to search for matches:  Progress is made when a DNA match is found with a kinsman who has tested, and you are able to share information to help each other.  There are a number of on line databases where we can search for Y-DNA matches which are related to us at some time in the past.  The Family Tree DNA internal Customer database matching is perhaps the best, but you need to be a FTDNA customer to use this.  YSearch at http://www.ysearch.org/  is a public Y-DNA database run by Family Tree DNA, and includes entries from persons tested at numerous different test companies.  The SMGF database http://www.smgf.org/ychromosome/search.jspx was formed in a research project, and links many Y-DNA profiles to genealogies, this can be very useful.  Various Haplogroup, Geographic, Clan and Surname Projects at Family Tree DNA are also helpful.  It is important to remember that Surnames were not regularly used until perhaps 500 years ago, so it may be that you find interesting information about your early family 500 to 1000 years ago, from matches which come up in different surnames.

 

The Y-DNA Haplotree:  This is basically a male line family tree of the human race back to Y-DNA Adam.  By testing STRs mutations, we can usually infer which branch of the Haplotree a male is on, but by SNP testing, we can very accurately determine where a male fits on the male line human tree.  As time goes on we are learning which haplogroups migrated to different areas in different time frames.  So most people can learn the approximate trail their ancestors have taken over the past 100,000+ years.

 

Surname, Haplogroup, Clan, and Geographical Project:  Once a person has DNA tested at FTDNA, they can join a wide range of about 8,000 Surname Projects, or Geographical, or Haplogroup Projects. https://www.familytreedna.com/projects.aspx  These projects can further your knowledge in your specific interest area.  The voluntary Project Administrators do their best to help participants in these projects, to sort participants into families, and give advice on interpreting results or future testing.

 

THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF DNA TESTING:

Y-DNA testing can sound complicated.  We use “mutations” to find how persons are related.  There are lots of different types of mutations, ie SNPs, STRs, indels, and many subtle and irregular types of mutations, such as mutations in Palindrome regions.  Worry not!  Behind it all, it is basically a matter of similar Y-DNA means related, more similar, more closely related. The Project Administrators and the staff of various test companies will help out to point you in the right direction.  The test companies have searching, matching, and analysis tools which help you to find your way through the fog.  The Project Administrators don’t know everything, but generally know enough to know where to look for something if needed.

Video on DNA testing:
The following lecture (James Rader)…. https://rootstech.org/video/3166670871001  gives a broad introduction to genealogical DNA testing.  Y-DNA testing is only one of 3 types of DNA tests discussed, and it is only briefly covered, but for any interested, it may be a starting point to understanding different ways DNA testing can be used for genealogy.  Some of the other videos at this link have information about DNA testing, eg the one which Spencer Wells jointly presented.

 

WHAT TYPE OF TEST TO TAKE, WHEN TO TEST, WHAT TEST COMPANY TO USE, AND WHAT MARKERS TO TEST:

Different people have different goals from DNA testing, and depending on different factors different types of tests can better suit their specific testing needs.  John Marsh ajmarsh@arrrg.org is pleased to advise anyone on what type of test would better suit an individual’s circumstances.  John is a volunteer Project Administrator, and is not on the payroll of any test company.  John tries to give the best advice on the best value for money approach.  Some test companies are recommended for particular types of tests, based on experience of 15 years with DNA testing at multiple companies.

 

There are currently several test companies competing in the DNA testing market:  For most situations we recommend Family Tree DNA, (FTDNA) who are the clear market leaders in Genealogical DNA testing for most types of tests.  But other companies are recommended for some specific types of tests.  FTDNA have an extensive customer database for finding matches which is an important factor to consider when selecting a test company. 

 

There are a number of test options which test different numbers of markers, and different types of markers:  Generally, the more Y-DNA markers tested, the more we can learn, so 67 STR markers is better than 12 STR markers.  However, if budget is an issue, the 12 marker STR test gets you started, and often can link you with lost relatives.  More markers will normally give more clues as to how branches of families are linked.  Once a DNA test is ordered, most companies store DNA for periods up to 25 years. 

Getting a first test and getting DNA stored by the test company is important in the case of elderly relatives:  If your 103 year old great grandfather, takes a low cost STR 12 marker Y-DNA test, his DNA will be stored for up to 25 years, and will be available in the future for upgrading testing to more markers.  Getting DNA stored while the donor is available, alive and kicking, is an important reason to test now rather than procrastinating. 

 

New Comprehensive Y Chromosome test:  In 2013, a new type of test has been introduced which test millions of bases of the Y Chromosome, essentially looking for SNP mutations, but also finding STR mutations. This test is many times more helpful than just testing a set number of STR markers, as in say the 111 marker STR test offered by FTDNA, but it does cost more.  Often it is not necessary to take this types of test, if a moderately close relative has taken it, but it depends on individual testing goals.  This type of test can be invaluable and very reliable for sorting out branches of families near the present, or going back thousands of years.  The best tests of this kind find distinctive family mutations at around 100 to 150 year intervals, so the tree back to Y-DNA Adam can be reconstructed with accurate branch points at approximately 3 or 4 generation intervals.

 

Y-DNA basics:  For those not familiar with DNA, our DNA is made up of a spiral string of molecules of 4 types, known by the letters A, G, C, and T.  Each of these letters in the spiral chain is called a base.  Y-DNA, also often referred to as the Y Chromosome, is the part of the DNA of males which is passed on mostly unchanged from fathers to sons.  The Y Chromosome is around 60 million bases long.  At the birth of a new son, these 60 million bases are copied from the father to the son, but sometime copying errors occur, which we call mutations.  It is the mutations which we use for genetic genealogy.

 

STR mutations:  A STR marker is where a “group” of letters are copied many times.  For example, there might be GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA GATTA  at one part of the Y-DNA.  This has the GATTA grouping repeated 12 times.  A father might have 12 “repeats” at this location.   If there was a mistake in copying when a son was born he might have either 11 or 13 copies of GATTA at this location.  That would be a STR mutation.  We can use this type of mutation to distinguish one family from another or one branch of a family from another.  STR mutations are moderately common, so different branches of a family can sometimes separately mutate to the same value at a STR marker, but that said, STRs are in most cases reliable enough to help unravel origins of families.

 

SNP mutations: If a copying error occurs at a single base, it might change from say an A to a G.  We would call this one base change a SNP mutation.  On average, there is about one distinctive SNP mutation in the Y-DNA of ever male born, and because SNP mutations at any one base are so rare, once it occurs it is passed on to all direct male line descendants.  This is invaluable for genealogical purposes.  Tests like Big Y (tests about 10 million bases), YPrime (tests about 20 million bases) and YElite (tests about 25 million bases) are new to the market in 2013, but they look to be hugely useful in tracing origins of families with high accuracy. 

TESTING IS EASY:
Testing is easy.  The following link is to a video of how to use a Family Tree DNA test kit to get a DNA sample.
https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/dna-test-kit-instructions/

TEST COMPANIES AND TESTS THEY OFFER:

 

1) Family tree DNA (FTDNA) https://www.familytreedna.com/

(Prices vary from time to time, so confirm exact prices when ordering - prices offered through surname projects like the Westmoreland Project are slightly less than offered to persons not ordering through a surname project.)
Option 1:
 Y-DNA12 male 12 STR marker paternal test $59 USA (Group price) - STARTER
Option 2:
Y-DNA25 male 25 STR marker paternal test $124??? USA (Group price) - GOOD
Option 3:
Y-DNA37 male 37 STR marker paternal test $149 USA (Group price) - BETTER
Option 4:
Y-DNA67 male 67 STR marker paternal test $248 USA (Group price) – BETTER

Option 5: Y-DNA111 male 111 STR marker paternal test $339 USA   BETTER

Option 6: Big Y male Y Chromosome test which tests approx 10 million “bases” of Y-DNA, $595?- BEST offered by FTDNA (but compare with option 8 below)

 

TO SIGN UP USING FAMILY TREE DNA (FTDNA) AS THE TEST COMPANY:
If you decide you want to sign up for a test with FTDNA, if you click on the following link
https://www.familytreedna.com/project-join-request.aspx?group=Westmoreland&projecttype=S  it takes you to the sign up page for approval by the Project Administrators.  Once approved, you can select a test type, and order a test at the discounted price and be joined to the Westmoreland DNA Project. 

 

2) Full Genomes: https://www.fullgenomes.com/  

Option 7:  YElite  male Y Chromosome test which tests approx 25 million “bases” plus approx 470 STR markers  $895?- ULTIMATE Y-DNA TEST
NOTE: although they Y-Chromosome is about 60 million bases long, large parts of it are repetitive and difficult to sequence.  The 25 million bases tested by Full Genomes cover all of the parts of the Y Chromosome which can be relatively easily sequenced, and which are of use for genealogical purposes.  So for the foreseeable future, if not for ever, there is unlikely to be a better test than the 25 million base test.  One supposes that if a 25 million base Y test is taken, there will be no need to test any more of the Y Chromosome in the future. 

Option 8:  Y Prime male Y Chromosome test which tests approx 20 million “bases” plus many STR markers  $650?- GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY Y-DNA TEST

3) YSEQ:
  http://www.yseq.net/  

NOTE: This company newly established in late 2013, is largely focusing on selected individual SNP testing.  There may be times when this company is useful.

FURTHER TEST OPTIONS:
It is suggested that if testing at other than the above test companies, that options be discussed with John Marsh
ajmarsh@arrrg.org .  Cost is not the only factor when selecting a test company, and new test companies are entering the market from time to time.  Some companies like YFull offer interpretation services for comprehensive Y Chromosome tests.  There are also various autosomal DNA and mtDNA tests which don’t relate to Y-DNA, and are offered by a variety of companies.  Project members can order these once joined to the Westmoreland project, but the Project Administrators can only offer limited advice on these tests.

NOTE: SOME TEST COMPANIES HAVE SALES IN DECEMBER EACH YEAR, AND ABOUT HALF WAY THROUGH THE YEARJust mentioning this for those who have difficulty parting with their money.

 
 
2)Y-DNA TEST RESULTS
NOTE: In column one, the W numbers (and A, Q, & X numbers) are the personal participant ID numbers, the F numbers (and B numbers)are the documented paper trail Family numbers, the G numbers are the Group numbers for members with generally similar Y-DNA
NOTE: Further results on the FTDNA Web Site... https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Westmoreland?iframe=ycolorized
NOTE: The descriptions in blue under red Group Numbers relate to the SNP mutations in branches/ haplogroups of the human male line family tree, called a haplotree, one version can be seen at http://www.isogg.org/tree/
Group- G1
R1b> M269> P312> DF27> Z2552> L617> FGC14951

F1: Descends from Henry Westmoreland, b.1825 USA 
B1: Descends from a Marsh family from Cambridgeshire, which appears to possibly descend direct male line from a Robert de Tindall from
South West Northumberland, very close to Westmorland County England, about 800 years ago.  It seems likely from Y-DNA results that Families
F1 and B1 shared a common male line ancestor about 800 to 1000 years ago. 
(The SNP M269 shared by Groups G1, G2, G3, indicates a shared common ancestor about 7,000 years ago in Europe)
(The SNP P312 shared by Groups G1, G2, indicates a shared common ancestor about 4,700 years ago in Europe)

(The SNP Z2552 likely occurred in Iberia between 4,700 and 4,000 years ago.)
(The SNP L617 likely occurred in Iberia between about 4,000 and 3,400 years ago)
( The SNP FGC14951 occurred perhaps 3,000 years ago on a line which migrated to the British Isles.)

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
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2
4
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8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
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4
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4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
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4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
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5
5
7
 
5
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4
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6
 
4
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5
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4
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4
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4
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5
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4
4
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6
1
7
 
5
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4
8
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5
7
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6
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0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
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7
1
0
 
4
8
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6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
R1b MODAL    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 37 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 09 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
W1F1G1>>Westmoreland 13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 37 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 10 12 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 29 12 13 25 13 10 . . . . . . . . . . . 23 . . . . . 12 .
A1B1G1>>Marsh-1500>Tindall?-1200>? 13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 11 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 36 15 09 16 11 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 29 12 12 25 13 10 10 20 15 20 13 24 16 13 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G2
R1b> M269> P312> L48

F2: Descends from Isaac Westmorland b 1693 UK 
(The SNP M269 shared by Groups G1, G2, G3, indicates a shared common ancestor about 7,000 years ago in Europe)
(The SNP P312 shared by Groups G1, G2, indicates a shared common ancestor about 4,700 years ago in Europe)

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
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4
5
1
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5
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1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
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6
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3
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9
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0
4
3
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4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
R1b MODAL    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 37 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 09 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
W2F2G2>>Westmorland 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 16 17 17 10 11 19 22 15 15 18 18 34 37 11 12 m o r e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G3
R1b> M269>

F3: Descends from ...Westmorland From Renwick, Cumbria, UK 
(The SNP M269 shared by Groups G1, G2, G3, indicates a shared common ancestor about 7,000 years ago in Europe)
 

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
R1b MODAL    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 37 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 09 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
W3F3G3>>Westmorland 13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 13 14 13 30 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G7
R1b> M269>

F7:  Penrith area Westmorland County England
 

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
W7F7G7>>  14 23 14 11 11 16 12 12 12 13 13 29 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G13
R1b>U106>L257>S5750

F13:  Descendants of Crinan (& Bethoc), the reputed ancestors of the Neville earls of Westmoreland
Note, the haplotype seems to vary a lot in Crinan Descendants, which after more than 1000 years is not surprising.
 

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
W13F13G13>>  YSearch NUH49 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 11 13 13 29 m o r e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
W14F13G13>> DunbarYSearchP3MKY 13 24 14 11 12 15 12 12 13 13 13 29 m o r e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G4
I> M170

F4: Descends from John Westmoreland b.1748 d.1812 Orange Co NY  (YSearch FDWC4?)

 

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
W4F4G4>>Westmoreland 13 23 15 10 14 14 11 13 10 12 11 28 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G5
I>  M223

F5: Descends from .... USA

 

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
W5F5G5>>Westmoreland 14 23 15 10 14 14 11 13 10 12 12 29 m o r e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 11 12 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G12
I>  M253?

F12:  Descends from Robert Westmoreland 1745-1791 (see YSearch FDWC4)  (14=14,14)
F9:  Descends from John R Westmoreland b.1812 Westmoreland Co VA USA 
NOTE:  There seems to be a common DNA mutation event which doubles marker 3, and deletes marker 12, so this may mean W12 and W9 are more
closely relate than seems at first sight. 

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
W12F12G12>>Westmoreland 13 23 14 10 14 14 11 14 11 12 11 28 15 8 9 8 11 23 16 20 28 12 14 15 16 11 10 19 21 14 14 16 20 35 36 12 10 12 8 15 15 8 11 10 8 9 10 12 23 23 15 10 12 12 17 8 12 25 20 13 13 11 12 11 11 12 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
W9F9G12>>Westmoreland 13 23 14 10 14 14 11 14 11 12 11 28 15 8 9 8 11 23 16 20 28 12 14 15 16 11 10 19 21 14 14 16 21 35 37 12 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
      .                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Group- G11
?

F11: (???possible Neville ancestor???)

 

DYS Numbers >

 


 

3
9
3
 
3
9
0
 
 
1
9
 
3
9
1
 
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
 
3
8
8
 
4
3
9
 
3
8
9
-
1
3
9
2
 
3
8
9
-
2
4
5
8
 
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
 
4
5
4
 
4
4
7
 
4
3
7
 
4
4
8
 
4
4
9
 
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0

 
G
-
H
4
Y
C
A

2
a
 
Y
C
A

2
b
 
4
5
6
 
6
0
7
 
5
7
6
 
5
7
0
 
C
D
Y

a
 
C
D
Y

b
 
4
4
2
 
4
3
8
 
5
3
1
 
5
7
8
 
3
9
5
S
1
a
3
9
5
S
1
b
5
9
0
 
5
3
7
 
6
4
1
 
4
7
2
 
4
0
6
S
1
 
5
1
1
 
4
2
5
 
4
1
3
a
 
4
1
3
b
 
5
5
7
 
5
9
4
 
4
3
6
 
4
9
0
 
5
3
4
 
4
5
0
 
4
4
4
 
4
8
1
 
5
2
0
 
4
4
6
 
6
1
7
 
5
3
8
 
4
8
7
 
5
7
2
 
6
4
0
 
4
9
2
 
5
6
5
 
7
1
0
 
4
8
5
 
6
3
2
 
4
9
5
 
5
4
0
 
7
1
4
 
7
1
6
 
7
1
7
 
5
0
5
 
4
5
6
 
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
 
6
3
6
 
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
 
4
5
2
 
4
4
5
 
G
A
T
T
A

A
1
0
4
6
3
 
4
4
1
 
G
G
A
A
T

1
B
0
7
5
2
5
 
7
1
2
 
5
9
3
 
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
 
5
6
1
 
5
5
2
7
2
6
 
6
3
5
/
C
4
 
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
 
4
6
1
 
4
3
5
 
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8<